Comments on Childfree Clique: Is "Blind Faith" The Paramount Difference Between ...

OMG So it's not just me. I've noticed that a lot ...

2009-09-01T09:12:48.295-07:00

OMG So it's not just me.

I've noticed that a lot of these breeders are "christian." They follow a patriarchal religion, and live their lives according to a patriarchal assignment of who they are and how they should be as women. For these women children are "a blessing" and I've even had one of these crazy ppl WISH a child on me. Is that not the single most insane thing you've heard? Why would you wish for someone who doesn't want kids to have them?

I've been told that I'm "cruel" or just saying I don't want kids cause I'm young (will be 24 next week.) I've heard all that rot "it'll change when you get older/what kind of woman doesn't want to have kids." Do they not see how misogyinst and how oppressive that world view is? That a woman's worth is bound to her ability to breed. I don't get it, and OH BOY am I glad to find a site that expresses how I feel about having children.

On to the "faith" these ppl have for their crazy decisions to have kids in unfortunate circumstances...

Most often, in my experience, ppl who have kids when they're not ready to, or haven't planned to always have faith. That's because it's all they have to hold on to. They know their situation is effed up, and suddenly the get the "feeling" that everything will be ok. Um no, children do NOT fix a marriage/broken relationship. They do not "enrich" your life, they do not help at all. They're expensive, the demand a LOT of time and effort and they will likely drive you crazy! lol What the hell is all this faith about? Where does it come from? How does it help when you got one foot in doodoo and the other on a banana peel?

Thanks for the contributions everyone...again, I a...

2009-08-26T20:17:00.301-07:00

Thanks for the contributions everyone...again, I appreciate the staying on topic. I will reject all further comments about health care though so don't waste your keystrokes. The comment won't even fully be read...I'll see the words "health care" and hit delete.

Delete, delete, delete.

I'm drunk.

I think I've just realized the difference between ...

2009-08-26T05:34:46.192-07:00

I think I've just realized the difference between me and a lot of my friends lately (they all have kids) is they have this faith that I don't have, I don't believe everything will always be ok. I think eventually things work out as they were meant to but sometimes you lose things or things don't work out. I think I'm too realistic for my own good.

When I read this I can't help but think about a fr...

2009-08-24T01:25:14.770-07:00

When I read this I can't help but think about a friend of mine who plays Poker in Vegas. He always tells me about the absolute need to play logically and rationally and pay attention to odds. It's true that people get lucky in Poker, as people do in life, but the best Poker players are the ones who never "tilt", or start playing emotionally or thinking like there's some magical force that will make them lucky.
Obviously life and babies aren't a poker game, but I can't help thinking that if more people stopped 'tilting' and started thinking rationally, they'd be happier.

I sincerely apologise in advance for length! I kn...

2009-08-21T00:38:38.997-07:00

I sincerely apologise in advance for length!

I know we didn't want to get onto the debate about health systems, but I live in Britain and can see how this links in with Blind Faith.

I'll set out immediately that I think our NHS is and should be the envy of the world. It's a wonderful thing and I am personally endebted to it so much - without it I wouldn't be alive. With an insurance system I'd never be accepted because I have a genetic disease (not my fault, but "pre-existing", meaning I'd be rejected). The NHS was started with the view to making medical care equally accessible, rather than open just to those who could afford it, and it achieves that, regardless of opinion in the US, or apparently that of Daniel Hannan.

Sure, some people do abuse our health service. Only recently there was a case of a 22 year old man who had been an alcoholic for almost a decade. He needed a new liver, the NHS refused. In my opinion, quite rightly so as he did that to himself. Some people try to get IVF on the NHS, the current Government even said that they should, and quite frankly, that's morally reprehensible when some areas have to cut back on cancer and cardiac treatment because of funding problems.

It's the same for a rising number of pregnancies, especially amongst teenagers. They ignore all of the advice given to them by midwives and go about for 9 months as though nothing has changed. They have this utter blind faith that because the NHS is free (it isn't, those of us who pay tax pay hugely for it) then the NHS will fix all of their problems. The NHS can't fix it when a 15 year old girl gives birth to a child who is: malnourished because she ate nothing but kebabs and McDonalds, addicted to nicotine and of low birthweight because she smoked 60 fags per day, and is brain damaged due to Foetal Alcohol Syndrome because the mother drank twice the recommended allowance. I think that people who perpetuate their own problems, including pregnancies, should be made to pay for it. We now know it costs £60,000 for a teenager to give birth. Make them pay. In fact, for things like gastric banding patients are increasingly being made to stump up the cash as the NHS cannot cope with the rising cost.

There are people who play the system, but they aren't what is bringing it down. People who have absolute blind faith that doctors and surgeon are infallible, but then they are injured or a relative dies due to a mistake are increasingly suing the NHS, even more the people who ignore advice and cause themselves injury (especially so those who refuse to follow post-surgery advice and end up needing more treatment). There was one case recently of a couple suing for the wrongful birth of their child. Yes, it's meant to say 'wrongful birth'. Doctors and surgeons are fallible, people make mistakes - we shouldn't have blind faith in them just because they're a consultant.

The biggest entity that's destroying the NHS is our current Labour Government, but that's a discussion for another time!

Unfortunately blind faith and a lack of personal responsibility is not only partly destroying our NHS, but is now so endemic in society that when teenagers get pregnant, it's not their fault. When people don't know the father of their children, it's not their fault. When their child misbehaves at school, it's not their fault. It's always someone else's.

"Everyone is fallible except me."

Rachel- Cheaters are a part of life...that's no re...

2009-08-19T15:33:49.950-07:00

Rachel- Cheaters are a part of life...that's no reason for everyone else to suffer.

The same logic is often used for people to rail against any form of public assistance...because of the "cheats".

Well, studies show that less than 10% of welfare recipients are actually defrauding the system. Most people who need these services use them temporarily and move on with life.

The number of people who would "abuse" a taxpayer funded health care system is miniscule in relation to those who really need it. You know, like the people who had pediatric cancer and can't get covered 30 years later...I've heard numerous stories from people like that.

There are MILLIONS of people out here going through this and enduring what my dad has had to endure. I'd bet money they far outnumber few rogue people buying boobs and then mooching off the system later on.

OK, so now that we got that out of the way, let's bring the post back to the problem at hand...faith and breeding. Two things that are not compatible. ;-)

In response to your post: I know someone who at 36...

2009-08-19T14:46:03.438-07:00

In response to your post:
I know someone who at 36 had inherited some quarter of a million dollars. That year, she quit her job. Within the next year, she'd bought 3 or 4 new cars, had a boob job, bought a tanning bed, a set of 4 wheelers and countless other items. She married a second time and became pregnant.

Her baby (cost of delivery) was paid for by my tax dollars and that of others in the state of Mississippi because she claimed "uninsured" status. This, for a good paying job she voluntarily QUIT when she inherited all that money. She had enough money for all the toys and the boob job, but supposedly not to pay for the child she voluntarily got pregnant with.

Don't get me wrong: What happened to your father is a horrible thing. It's unfair because he WORKED and had he not been injured/laid off, would have continued to. But, for every person out there like him who through no fault of his own is disabled and uninsured, there are folks like the girl I know who play and take advantage of the system. There needs to be a failsafe to cull out those who abuse the system in this way and waste our tax dollars, hence my post, "they bought the house and the car they couldn't afford too. And they all feel "entitled" to health insurance provided by OUR tax dollars."

Dorian Gray- Great comment and on point assessment...

2009-08-19T10:28:50.616-07:00

Dorian Gray- Great comment and on point assessments about personal responsibility. I am slowly starting to think that the majority of people who want children are borderline delusional. Most of them seem to really avoid all rational thought with regard to the potential consequences to their lives, relationships, finances, and future in general.

Pameli- OMG I know, trust me I know. When the pregnancy occurred, things were just not this bad. Over the passage of 7 short months she is now dealing with...

*Joblessness in a shitty economy
*Expiring health insurance
*A quickie marriage not starting off on a happy note
*An impotent husband
*A baby on the way in less than 2 months

This has progressed into hell as far as I'm concerned.

Anyway I can't help agree with you that childfree people definitely are a stellar group. So much THINKING and RATIONALITY! They plan things thoughtfully, they avoid "going with the crowd", they are far less delusional than most.

I'm in excellent fucking company, this I know.

Rachel- I agree with you about both fear and denial. I don't meet a lot of CF people that have an abundance of either of those things in their lives.

Now, as far as health care goes I disagree. Maybe once upon a time I would have thought people weren't "entitled", but after my father worked his ass off for almost 25 years at one company, had his job sent to Mexico, lost his health insurance, and subsequently needed TWO hip replacements at age 47 (and no insurer takes you on with a pre-existing)...he also couldn't get a new job in his condition and can barely walk. He has no dependent children for any welfare organization to take pity on him, and he's been denied by disability twice because of his age and the fact that he has a long work history and they think he should "work through the pain since he is still fairly young and skilled"..

Sorry but I no longer believe people don't have a RIGHT to health insurance in situations like this. It is shameful that our country is in such a state with regard to the health care system.

This also comes back to the issue of faith in a way...I have no FAITH that one day I won't be without coverage and suffering in pain WITH NO OPTIONS the way my father has.

Life can change for any of us in an instant. I am for universal coverage and I would gladly pay higher taxes for it. I don't want to spur this conversation on further or encourage other people to post about that (as it's totally off topic) but I needed to air my thoughts in response to your comment. This is a sore subject with me and watching coverage of those crazed people at these "health care town halls" makes me ill enough to vomit. I don't want this post to turn into that.

I think one of the biggest differences in "us" and...

2009-08-19T09:17:00.583-07:00

I think one of the biggest differences in "us" and "them" is that we display a fearlessness that they've never known. It's like going against the heard. We show a sense of self that they don't.

We don't fear that our lives will be "empty" without kids, we don't fear over who will take care of us in old age, and most of all, we don't fear what other people will say about us.

I think a lot of parents are in denial about kids in general. They always say "so-and-so has a kid who is a total brat...but OURS won't be that way." DENIAL. The same ones saying things like this are the same ones whose kids are among the WORST!

And I have to echo that sentiment of the poster above, who said that personal responsiblity is a thing of the past. Just look at how kids behave and how parents REFUSE to discipline them. But yet everyone feels this entitlement to have kids, whether they can afford them or not. Hell, while they're at it, they bought the house and the car they couldn't afford too. And they all feel "entitled" to health insurance provided by OUR tax dollars. It's this kind of thinking that got us into the mess we're in now!

I'm sorry to agree with you but the scenario you j...

2009-08-19T09:12:41.783-07:00

I'm sorry to agree with you but the scenario you just described relating to your BF's future seems like a HORROR film to me!
On the other hand, ( and I've been reading this wonderful book called 'Magnificent Mind at any age' ...), YOUR state of mind seems to me to be very healthy, smart, wise and full of common sense. I think you could certainly expect to have a MUCH happier outcome in YOUR life (including the romantic side...) than the average person!
But then again, maybe we , childfree people, are just smarter, more rational and have a healthier mind than most people - which of course, makes us lead smarter, more rational, healthier - and consequently HAPPIER !- lives.
That certainly seems to be the case when we read all the childfree blogs around here.
WE, are definately special...:-)

It is interesting you should bring up this idea of...

2009-08-19T07:00:46.260-07:00

It is interesting you should bring up this idea of faith as well as realising your own flaws.

When I talk to parents, those who are mostly opposed to the fact that I am a woman who can make up her own mind and not interested in perpetuating the race, I see that I have realised some (by no means all!) of my own flaws. It keeps coming up again and again. So many parents don't think they have flaws, they seem to see themselves as perfect people in their jobs, in society, as parents. I don't see myself as anything like that at all. I know where I'm going wrong and I take steps to correct it, I never just ignorantly sit by and "hope" that it will get better.

I often wonder too if all of this "hoping" that things will be okay is another sign of society's demise into the absolving of personal responsibility. If you simply "hope" that something will turn out well, but not do much or anything to try to ensure that it will happen, then a bad outcome is not your fault if you put all of your "faith" into "hoping". Like all of this Fundie stuff "God will provide". That's like me saying "I hope I get into Medical School", not doing anything conducive to it occuring and then getting pissed off when I don't suddenly have an offer of a place drop on my lap.

Life's what you make it, eh?